NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WTVF) — The man fueling some of the bizarre conspiracy theories adopted by the Millersville Police Department is pushing back.
That man, former Navy SEAL Craig "Sawman" Sawyer, recently took to a right-wing podcast to respond to NewsChannel 5's questions about his involvement in a botched child predator sting in Millersville that is now the focus of a TBI investigation.
Instead of giving answers, Sawyer delivered a 90-minute diatribe against this reporter. It's a response that illustrates how conspiracy theorists frequently use wild accusations and blustery language to avoid giving real answers about their bizarre beliefs.
"I definitely recognized all of the techniques in that video," said journalist Mike Rothschild, author of the book "The Storm Is Upon Us: How QAnon Became a Movement, Cult, and Conspiracy Theory of Everything."
"I recognized the absurd length. I recognized the jumping from topic to topic. I recognized the reversal of kind of who is under the spotlight."
Sawyer's interview on the Hagmann Report was touted as an act of transparency.
"Unlike Phil Williams, we have nothing to hide, so I will answer all of his questions," Sawyer told the host.
His chosen interviewer was another conspiracy theorist. Doug Hagmann helped fuel the bogus Pizzagate conspiracy theory that claimed Democrats were trafficking children out of this Washington D.C. pizza parlor.
"So, Phil, if you're paying attention, if you are listening, and I know you are, here we go," Hagmann declared.
But instead of real answers, Sawyer mocked my investigation of the embattled Millersville Police Department and its conspiracy-minded assistant chief Shawn Taylor.
In an exaggerated voice, Sawyer declared: "The people of Millersville are terrorized for fear that when they call law enforcement or call 911, it may be the conspiracy cop!"
He continued, again in the same tone, "According to my reports or my reporting, the TBI went and locked down the Millersville Police Department."
Shifting back into a quieter, more condescending voice, Sawyer added: "You were so proud of yourself."
He also mocked the men and women at the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
"The fact that you at TBI look like you jump through hoops whenever Phil Williams says you jump through hoops — and you ask how high," Sawyer argued.
It was — according to the journalist who has investigated the QAnon conspiracy theories that have infected the far-right — a textbook example of how such conspiracy theorists think.
"I think the thing that really jumped out at me is how long that response was — that’s 90 minutes," Mike Rothschild said.
"One of the tricks that these people use is to just talk and talk and talk and talk."
I followed up, "It’s a way of avoiding accountability?"
"It’s a way of avoiding accountability. It’s a way of avoiding actually answering any of the questions."
Sawyer claimed that because of my investigation of that potentially illegal sting, thousands of children would be raped and murdered.
"How many of those children's blood is on your hands, Phil?" he asked. "As a father and a veteran, I'm asking you how can you do this?"
Mike Rothschild has seen it before.
"These kinds of people, if you start questioning them, they get really, really angry and accusatory very quickly."
And like he has on other podcasts, Sawyer falsely accused me of being involved in criminal activity.
"Have you been told to make this go away, Phil?" he continued. "It seemed like we stepped on your fellow criminal network. If you are tied into them as your behavior indicates, it seems like we've disrupted something that's personal to you."
Again, Mike Rothschild was not surprised.
"The accusation that anybody that’s questioning me is actually a pedophile is very common in these kind of conspiracist circles — and it goes double for these kind of child protection networks, anti-trafficking groups, these self-appointed vigilantes who are saving children."
After almost an hour, Sawyer finally began reading from parts of my email, again throwing out more false accusations.
The email stated, "We're offering Mr. Sawyer an opportunity to answer my questions before that story airs."
"Well, gee whiz, Phil, why didn't you ask the chief of police or Shawn Taylor?" Sawyer demanded.
What Sawyer didn't tell podcast viewers was that we had tried, first with Taylor who refused to answer any questions, then his chief who declared "the reason why I'm not going to say anything to you is I don't like you."
"What this argumentative style does," Rothschild said, "is it deluges the other side with so many claims, so many questions, so many accusations that you can’t answer all of them — and any attempt to answer any of them is just met with 'Oh yeah, what about this other thing that has nothing to do with the first thing?'"
Soon, Sawyer was glossing over my actual questions.
"His next question is, our name of our organization implies that something, something.... ah, well, Phil."
The question he didn't want to read was about his group: Veterans for Child Rescue.
How many actual children have they rescued?
The truth, we suspect, is zero.
"When somebody’s response to that is angry accusations and essentially saying, 'well, that’s not actually what we’re doing,' I think you’re right to be suspicious," Mike Rothschild said.
I also had questions about the conspiracy theory that Sawyer helped stirred up six years ago when he led local reporters in Tucson to what he described as a "child rape camp."
In fact, police said there was no evidence it was anything but a homeless camp.
Again, in a mocking tone, Sawyer declared: "He wants to bring discredit about that. Well, this has been talked about dozens of times, Phil, over the years. That was in 2018."
He accused me of being "stuck in 2018."
"That’s something that’s fair game, that should be confronted and he should have an explanation for," Rothschild agreed. "And again this anger at being questioned to me reflects a kind of guilt and a kind of projection."
Then, there were my questions about Sawyer's more recent claims to know about planeloads of children being flown into the U.S. by sex traffickers.
"And one of those locations is near Nashville, Tennessee, that they are flying the children into," he claimed in another recent podcast.
But instead of reading my real question, Sawyer decided to just make up a question I had never asked.
"Phil wants to know: 'Have you demonstrated this or have you shot down any planes or have you disrupted or stopped these aircraft?' No, we don't shoot down airplanes, Phil. We don't go crashing into our vehicles on the airfields. We do this legally."
Mike Rothschild agreed it was what is commonly called a "straw man argument."
"He’s setting up a fake argument that he can then tear down," he observed.
"Yeah," I noted, "because I never asked if they shot down planes."
"Right, one would imagine that would be in the news. If they had shot down a plane, we’d probably be hearing about that."
To be fair, Sawyer was the one who had claimed in a film he produced that he had set up armed VIPR teams, short for Veterans Interdicting Pedophile Rings.
Still, I wanted to know whether he could just provide any photos or videos of these planeloads of children that he imagines sex traffickers are bringing into Tennessee.
"I wouldn't share this with you," Sawyer answered.
"I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, sir. I wouldn't share anything with you because you seem to clearly be on the other side of this."
Again, it was a typical tactic.
"The idea of we have the proof, but we can’t show it to you, it’s too explosive, it’s too damaging, you’re not read into it, that’s another variation of the secret knowledge argument that empowers a lot of conspiracy theories," Rothschild said.
We also had questions about some of Sawyer's other bizarre conspiracy theories, one on a post about people "running our country" that refers to the Jewish Rothschild family — he calls them a "banking cabal of Luciferian child rapists."
He also decries what he calls a "satanic cult masquerading as Jews" and "Luciferians pretending to be Jews" — all anti-Semitic tropes.
"I don't know what that's about," Sawyer claimed in response to my question.
"I don't know what he's basing that on. Again, when defeated on merit, it seems like people like Phil just throw out the race card."
Mike Rothschild was blunt.
"This idea that there are fake Jews who are only pretending to be Jews and who are really in league with the Nazis or with the Communists — and then there’s the real Jews and those real Jews should hate the fake Jews — this is just classic anti-Semitism."
"Trying to pretend it’s not is just insulting."
In fact, Rothschild said Sawyer's objections show how conspiracy theorists don't actually understand what it truly means to be transparent.
"He thinks this is a personal attack on him, and journalism is not a personal attack on people," the journalist added.
"It is a quest for the truth, it’s an asking for answers — and ultimately all of this could have been prevented if he had just been able to answer the questions."
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Do you have information that would help me with my investigation? Send me your tips: phil.williams@newschannel5.com
Here is how this investigation has unfolded:
May 20, 2024: Meet Millersville's conspiracy cop. He imagines sinister plots involving some of the country's most prominent political figures. Taylor recently landed in Millersville as assistant police chief, promising to root out the corruption he sees there. You can continue reading at this hyperlink.
May 22, 2024: The controversy over Millersville's conspiracy cop has now become the latest scandal rocking the tiny town just north of Nashville. Now, two city commissioners want a special meeting to figure out how Shawn Taylor landed his job.
You can continue reading Part Two at this link.
May 24, 2024: An attorney for Millersville conspiracy cop Shawn Taylor has told Millersville's city commission, whom he also represents, that they should not question the assistant police chief's bizarre theories or psychological fitness.
You can read more of this installment at this link.
May 28, 2024: New podcast video, uncovered by NewsChannel 5 Investigates, reveals how Shawn Taylor spread false and dangerous conspiracy theories about last year's Covenant School shooting that left three students and three staff members dead. You can click here to review that story.
May 28, 2024: Anna Caudill agreed to watch the video of Shawn Taylor knowing there might be only so much she could handle. Among the three children and three adults killed that day was her friend, Katherine Koonce. You can read more of Anna's story by tapping on this link.
June 3, 2024: First, he went after Millersville’s former mayor. Now, the town’s assistant police chief says his two critics on the city commission could be next. Shawn Taylor made those comments as he turned to a group of far-right podcasters to defend himself. Tap this link to read from those Taylor's accused.
June 4, 2024: Millersville officials are standing with their assistant police chief and his bizarre conspiracy theories regarding Nashville's Covenant School shooting. Read how this meeting played out at this link.
June 5, 2024: Bryant Kroll wears a lot of hats. He's the attorney representing the embattled City of Millersville. He also represents Mayor Tommy Long, who faces accusations of misconduct in an ouster suit. Plus, he's the attorney for Bryan Morris and Shawn Taylor. To understand the role he plays, you can read that here.
June 6, 2024: In Shawn Taylor's world — in the immortal words of Taylor Swift — "I'm the problem, it's me." I explain how we got here in this piece, which you can click on here.
June 18, 2024: Millersville's conspiracy cop now has his very own conspiracy-minded attorney. Now, our NewsChannel 5 investigation has discovered that Todd Callender's own theories are sometimes even more far-fetched than Taylor’s twisted view of the world. Click here to read more about Shawn Taylor’s attorney.
July 15, 2024: What happens when you give people with bizarre conspiracy theories a gun and a badge? Secret recordings from inside the troubled Millersville Police Department provide a sobering answer to that question.
Read more on this investigation by tapping here.
July 22, 2024: In an explosive new development that could bring new trouble for the already-troubled Millersville Police Department, a key player in a child-predator sting says the lead detective on that operation lied under oath.
You can read more about that by clicking here.
July 23, 2024: District Attorney General Robert Nash has asked the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to look into the Millersville Police Department's handling of a child predator sting, including possible perjury by the lead detective. You can read more about that by tapping here.
July 29, 2024: The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation has expanded its probe of the embattled Millersville Police Department, now looking into allegations that officials may have used sensitive law enforcement data to investigate their political enemies. Read more about that by clicking here.
August 5, 2024: With the Millersville Police Department now the focus of a TBI investigation, NewsChannel 5 Investigates has uncovered new questions about the stories that conspiracy cop Shawn Taylor tells about himself.
You can catch up on the investigation by tapping here.
August 12, 2024: In a perplexing pair of podcast interviews, the Millersville chief of police says the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation has begun limiting his department's access to certain sensitive law enforcement data. Read more about this latest development here.
August 26, 2024: He has helped to fuel some of the wild conspiracy theories inside the troubled Millersville Police Department. He is a self-proclaimed pedophile hunter who believes America is controlled by what he calls "a satanic cult masquerading as Jews." Read more about Craig Sawyer by clicking here.
August 27, 2024: Craig Sawyer’s response to my investigation illustrates how conspiracy theorists frequently use wild accusations and blustery language to avoid giving real answers about their bizarre beliefs. Tap here to watch as we dissect his 90-minute diatribe.
September 4, 2024: Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agents raided the Millersville Police Department and Shawn Taylor’s home, executing a pair of search warrants as the criminal investigation into the troubled agency enters a dramatic new phase. Read more about this new twist in the Millersville investigation.
September 10, 2024: “No, a TBI agent didn't pee in Shawn Taylor's tub, agency says in response to Taylor's latest claim.” The headline says it all. Click here.
September 19, 2024: QAnon-aligned voices of the far right are threatening retaliation against a judge, a district attorney and Tennessee Bureau of Investigation agents for their roles in the recent Millersville raids. Details posted here.
October 7, 2024: A well-known Arizona election denier says his group — working through Millersville's conspiracy-minded assistant police chief — gained access to a highly confidential federal database that tracks Americans’ banking transactions and other financial data. Read the exclusive story here.
October 22, 2024: Two key GOP lawmakers – the chairman and a member of the state House committee that oversees the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation – recently warned the agency that it could face “unnecessary political fallout” if it does not end its criminal probe into the troubled Millersville Police Department. You can read the letter here.
October 24, 2024: A letter from two GOP lawmakers, which appeared to threaten the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation for its probe of the Millersville Police Department, was the "wrong way to go," House Speaker Cameron Sexton said. But there is more to the speaker's reaction.
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